One of the most significant things I learned during my two weeks of Interim Training in 2012 is this: I cannot outwork the changing world. I must quit trying harder.
That mindset to address change was drilled into me throughout my years of compulsory, undergraduate, and graduate education as well as thirty-two of my forty-two years of being a Pastor. Trying to outwork the changing world is now labeled the “Old Mindset” by the “New Mindset” named Adaptive Change. My friends, societal and cultural changes have placed stress on communities of faith. In the past fifteen years, changes seem to be happening every day. And communities of faith are having a tough time finding their way.
I am thrilled to be our Interim Pastor at such a time as this for Grace Presbyterian Church. It is true, I am asking staff, leadership, and the folk who call Grace Presbyterian Church home to join me in moving from the “Old Mindset” of trying harder to the “New Mindset” of making observations, interpretations, asking questions, and making interventions in measured ways. It is true and I confess that this process of moving from certainty and comfort to humility and discomfort is hard, but the results are beyond rewarding.
Our next Interim Pastor Journey Town Hall Meeting, Step 2, is Sunday, May 5. We will have one service in the Sanctuary at 10:00 am followed by a potluck covered dish lunch, including dessert, water, iced tea, and coffee.
The question for the focus of our discussion, as we complete Step 2 of 6 in our Interim Pastor Journey, is: How would you describe Grace to someone you wanted to attend with you?
What values, attitudes, and behaviors are healthy to continue, to stop? How might this discussion assist us in shifting from a focus on measuring membership statistics to a focus on spiritual formation?
As you reflect upon your daily encounter with Jesus, what difference will he make in your life as we participate together in the transition from the “Old Mindset” to the “New Mindset”?
Pick up a copy of the unedited but organized comments received from the seventy-four participants in the first Our Interim Pastor Journey Town Hall Meeting, Step 1, at the Kiosk or see below.
On the journey of Christian discipleship and spiritual formation with you, I remain faithfully yours,
Steve
The Rev. Dr. Steven M. Marsh
Interim Pastor
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Our Interim Pastor Journey Town Hall Meeting:
Step 1, March 17, 2024
How has Grace’s past shaped who we are today?
Discussion framework:
- Avoid extreme reactions to our history.
- Embrace past difficulties and affirm they have strengthened us to meet today’s challenges.
- Focus on proud moments in the past and on current strengths in the church.
- Dream an inspiring, satisfying, achievable, and sustainable future.
Share impactful, positive memories of being involved at Grace
Service
- Ushering
- Serving in Session (during COVID- insightful experience). I
- Volunteering with youth group.
- Youth Mission trips
- Kenya mission trips
- Trip to Cuba
- Serious about mission work
- Economy corner
- Movement of the Spirit
- Serving in the nursery with infants
- Baptismal font project (and many others)
- Love Wichita project
- Being part of the lawn care program at Grace provided an opportunity to use gifts/abilities and meet other members. I
- Seeing how the church has embraced the Indian men and invited them to be part of services, ushering, etc.
- Lots of opportunities to get involved in the church in so many areas (choir, etc.)
Worship
- Creative worship planning
- Music productions and choir. I
- Strong support of music programs; excellence
- Worship with praise band has brought me to emotional tears many times.
- Junior church
- Seeing members working together in the pulpit supply period to keep the church together and keep things going. People are welcoming.
- Being baptized as an adult. I
- Easter cross on the lawn. I
- Beauty provided by art team
Discipleship
- VBS I
- Serving as bible school leader
- Volunteering to teach high school Sunday school
- The Communicate class
- Adult Sunday school.
- Adult Sunday school classes (‘young marrieds’ in the 1960s) who grew older together (“Fleet nights”)
- Sunday school with a variety of ages. People don’t push you into a box.
- Youth ministry / Sunday School (as a child) II
- Sunday school, women’s retreat, book club – each of these settings have been with people from different viewpoints. No one tries to make me something I’m not.
- Adult Sunday school is amazing – so many viewpoints shared without pressure to believe one thing.
- Scotch and scripture men’s bible study I
- Small group ministry that welcomed me in weeks after I visited the church
- Network discovery > lay leadership
- Tues and Weds night gatherings
Fellowship
- Feeling accepted
- Happy place
- Togetherness
- People are so friendly from the moment you walk in the door. You are greeted and welcome. III
- Welcoming environment, especially for women in leadership.
- Catherine just sat down to try to get to know us (without any agenda) when we first visited the church.
- Catherine remembered us a year after we first visited (ash drive-by)
- Catherine invited us to dinner.
- Coffee with Catherine
- Keith knew me by name and remembered me
- Family ministry – so many events, activities, ministries together to strengthen families in their faith. (Kids Day out, VBS, evening worship, Weds evenings). I
- Parents night out – fun! I
- Memories of getting married in the church and raising families here. IIII
- Children baptized here.
- Mariners was a great program to get people together and help them. IIIII I
- Small groups. I
- Connections with other families
- Being invited to dinner at the Wolfe’s when first joining and continuing to get together with that group of people for fellowship over the past 2 years.
- Praise Band
- Cooking in the kitchen
- Ice cream socials on the lawn
Care / Comfort
- Catherine welcomed us in from a previous church trauma experience.
- Catherine – Taking time to get to know us and checking in with concerns for family members.
- Being a deacon. I
- Stephen Ministry
- Close and caring groups
- A place to heal.
What are your expectations for today’s gathering?
Process
- Learning about the process. I
- Understanding
- Be focused and positive
- For people to feel their voices are heard.
- Hear what others have to say.
- Listen
- Listen to others (young people) and what they want and need.
- Encourage others to participate in the active life of this congregation (youth, young adults, music programs, study, service @ Grace and for others)
- Good food
- Getting to know each other
- I came with no expectations. I
- Expect that more will be said than done
Reflect back
- Learn the history of the church. III
- Understanding why we are who we are today.
- Different stories help us understand Grace
- Hear both good and bad stories
- Identify how the church has fallen and risen over time.
- It’s ok to see the setbacks/hard times through a lens of how we have been able to move forward.
Look Forward
- That we can find purpose for the church
- Get us in gear to shape our future beyond our past.
- Help to develop who we are as a congregation and church so we can chart a good path forward and find a good person to walk alongside us in the future.
- To strategize about growing the church and inviting friends
- Find ways to attract younger people. II
- Attract more diverse populations.
- Bring flexibility to possibilities
- Unity. II
- Hope
Share impactful, positive memories and/or past difficulties that have strengthened you/us.
Rev. Keesecker (1958-1979)
Positive
- Well respected
- Very articulate
- Very intellectual
- Strong personality
- Lead us well
- High standards.
- Strong leader, more top down
- Great speaker, but beyond some people
- Youth
- Kids choir
- Large membership. II
- Fellowship of Mariner classes. II
- Wednesday night programs
- Support, fellowship
- Strong music program. I
- Capital campaigns
- Very attuned to Book of Order. Helped write Confession 67.
- Served as Moderator of the General Assembly.
- Denomination leader
- Teaching 2nd graders and getting to know their families
- Attending service with family, growing up at Grace
- Congregation pulled together
- He raised me
Negative
- Might have placed professional success ahead of Grace’s success.
- My way or the highway
(N)either
- Served in a very patriarchal time. Men were heads of households and families were in church on Sundays.
- He weekly talked against alternative lifestyles even though times were changing.
- Paying for Angela Davis’ defense by Presbyterian USA.
- Stronger society expectation in Christ/Church
Rev. Moser (1981-1990)
Positive Fun
- Pastoral, caring. I
- Folksy demeanor
- Related to young people
- More approachable than Dr. Keesecker.Strong music
- Mariner groups
- Strong youth programs
- Mission trips
- Stephen Ministry
- Singing in the choir at Christmastime dressed as an angel. (It makes me laugh and I hope to have a memory for my little guy like that).
- There were more small groups which helped keep members and assimilate new members.
- He was blamed for associate pastors problems unfairly.
- Too many wanted the “old” way so he never had a true chance. I
- He came to the house and visited with our son (that kept him going). I think he told him he was a leader and sometimes you have to speak up.
Negative
- Difficulty with private conversations – too public
- We seemed to “coast” instead of being innovative and creative.
- Financial pressure on members to contribute.
- Had 2 associate pastors who betrayed the congregation’s trust. I
(N)either
- Parish zones
- We have high expectations for pastors. When they fail, we have huge disappointments and have difficulty forgiving their sins.
Rev. Koch (1992-2009)
Positive
- Great with pulling the youth in.
- Good communicator
- Great visionary pastor
- Showed compassion during some very hard times
- He accepted me so easily.
- Engaged in strategic planning for the church
- He worked hard to expand the congregation
- Capital campaign, brought the congregation together – Great room. III
- Tues and Weds night dinners and worship. I
- Small group community
- Strong support for music program
- Fostering equality in leadership roles.
- Strong lay leadership
- Lots of things happened via lay teams.
- Loved how open he was to allowing members to start/lead programs
- Family Ministry and Family worship service. I
- Cultivating spiritual gifts for service. Network discovery. II
- Mission trips
- Embracing Larry – bringing him back to ministry
- He baptized me.
- “Alleluia Amen” legacy
Negative
- Hidden addiction.
- The effects on the congregation and staff from alcoholism.
- His alcoholism left many tasks undone. Why didn’t we identify his condition sooner?
- His struggle with alcohol ended his tenure.
- Failed to address his own problems to the detriment of Grace.
- Keith’s departure not handled well. I
- Presbytery failed Grace and Keith by not fostering healing.
- Challenging interim times that followed his term
- He seemed to talk over my head. I got very little out of his sermons.
- Teens don’t want to come to church when they are told they are shameful (purity culture).
- Seemed like he wanted to dictate policy instead of letting the session.
- Impressed by ‘prestige’ – invited session members who held positions of import in the community.
(N)either
- Pain and dismay on personal level
- Heartbreak abandonment ended in crisis
- Selective about who he married.
- All that time together and I have neither good nor bad memories.
- All ministers are human.
- Seemed to attract new members easily, but chaos drove some away.
Rev. Neelly-Burton (2012-2023)
Positive
- Inclusive and encouraging
- Friendly, knew our names
- Very positive leadership
- Sharing, openness
- Friendliness
- Mentor
- Flexible
- Matter-of-fact
- A very human, approachable, down to earth minister.
- She was easy to be around
- Solid leadership bridged with compassion.
- Calm in the midst of any storm. I
- Non-anxious presence. Low drama
- Pastoral and caring for us all
- Pastoral care – so many funerals in 2012.
- Funny, personal sermons
- Biblical sermons
- Good preacher, excellent funeral services
- Sermons were insightful, contained humor, but were informational and thoughtful.
- Breath of fresh air
- Just what we needed at the time
- Not afraid to bring up and address difficulties, especially the decision to hold marriages of LGBTQ members
- Strong leadership by Grace within the Presbytery.
- Loved she was a woman minister.
- Wonderful role model for future women in the church
- She was an inspiration as a female in ministry leadership- my kids know women as leaders.
- Having a woman pastor set the tone publicly.
- Whole congregation is very welcoming.
- Welcoming pastor – interested in us and our lives. Helped me be included. III
- The pastor and congregation tried to plug people in where they might fit.
- Always supportive, interested, caring about our well being
- Accepted me as a single parent from another congregation
- Accepting and performing my mother’s service after years of absence.
- Very pastoral in a time of extreme transition and pain.
- I was deeply grieving loss of my old church community after a move. I was comforted and my loss was accepted and valued. I received Christ’s love and witnessed true followers.
- Brought a sense of Christ’s love for all to the church.
- Called me and check in personally when my husband had major surgery
- Helpful when my husband had cancer.
- We came to Grace for its strong youth program and mentorship of the youth in the surrounding community.
- Secured donations to Grace that supported Mission trip to Puerto Rico and chaplain at JLL.
- Loved the stories she shared. She was very upbeat for the youth.
- JJL – great outreach
- Messy Church (evening chidren/family service)
- Graceful sunsetting of ministries that overburdened church and staff
- Music ministry. I
- Small groups, dinners.
- Outdoor church during Covid
- Tried to be involved.
- Involvement in the community. I
- Living into our ministry as a church in the local community
- I liked getting more involved in community needs
- We came from a much larger church. We like the emphasis on more local mission opportunities that seems to be the focus at Grace.
- Her wedding and young daughter made everyone smile.
Negative
- Left abruptly and we didn’t know why. Presbytery structure doesn’t allow for transparency.
- Disappointment with her departure.
- LGBTQ decision caused many to leave Grace. I
- Lacked spiritual growth during this.
- Decline of families with children
- Lack of support for family ministry service
- Loss of small group communities
- Loss of Weds night fellowship
- The church lost its sense of “fun”. We became overly serious.
- Hesitancy to make ‘asks’ of people to be involved in various ministries left some people unconnected.
- Hard to get to know
- Sometimes distant. Didn’t feel genuine.
- Bullying of Catherine by a church member and how it was handled. I
- Pandemic response not handled well. Closed minded session. I
(N)either
- Narrative lectionary
- COVID / online-only services / fewer church events. IIIII I
- People in the congregation were mean about Catherine’s Covid precautions
- Decisions about the LGBTQ+ inclusive statement. I
- People won’t accept LGBTQ people in church despite PCUSA’s stance
- Families don’t value church so we have a hard time attracting young families.
- People who grew up under purity culture stopped attending church
- Christians who don’t stand up against Christian nationalism will not ever get young people to attend their churches.
- Rise of Christian nationalism and Trump followers
- Involvement of lay people in continuing worship without called pastor
- Great guest pastors, male and female.
Misc comments from group notes (not directly addressing questions posed):
- Why are we still letting someone from decades ago shape who we are today? We have so many new members who never knew Keeseker or Moser. It is off-putting to hear about decades-old nostalgia with an implicit wish to go back to those days.
- Having trouble bringing youth in and keeping them (after they go to college)Our Interim Pastor Journey
- Losing members due to LGBTQ+
- Pastoral transitions
- “Youth” is too nebulous: Teens, young adults, young families.
- Need to be sure to seek out teen feedback in this process.
- We need a plan
